Divergent Conversations

58
Health & Fitness #227, Mental Health #85

Dr. Megan Neff and Patrick Casale are two Neurodivergent therapists in a neurotypical world. During this podcast, they’ll talk about their own personal experiences as Autistic-ADHDers. They will reflect on their lived experience as AuDHD mental health professionals, and entrepreneurs, as well as offer clinical guidance, and support. Episodes will be conversational in nature, and they’ll interview other ND Folx to amplify the voices of other neurodivergent advocates and individuals as they share their authentic stories. New episodes will come out weekly, on all major platforms. Megan told Patrick, ”I’ll bring the chaos, You organize it.” This perfectly sums up their working relationship and friendship. Reflections of two neurodivergent clinicians. Raw, Vulnerable, Affirmative As Hell. Follow on instagram.com/divergentconversationsTopics include Autism, ADHD, Sleep struggles, Chronic Illness, RSD, Alexithymia, Autistic burnout, Intersectionality, Neuroqueer, Creativity, OCD, Neurodivergence, Affirming Language, Small business ownership, Unpacking Internalized Ableism, and so much more. If you love the podcast, please leave us a 5 star review https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/divergent-conversations/id1662009631Visit our website for all podcast episodes and sponsorship opportunities divergentpod.comLegal Disclaimer: The content provided in this podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered medical advice. Always consult a qualified healthcare provider or medical professional for personalized advice regarding any medical condition or treatment.

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Recent Episodes
  • Episode 81: Giftedness (Part 2): You’re a Zebra, Not a Weird Horse [featuring Dr. Matt Zakreski]
    Nov 22, 2024 – 55:52
  • Episode 80: Giftedness (Part 1): Defining Giftedness: Beyond High IQs [featuring Emily Kircher-Morris]
    Nov 15, 2024 – 50:30
  • Episode 79: OCD (Part 5): Bridging Mental Health and Comedy [featuring Samuel Silverman]
    Nov 8, 2024 – 41:55
  • Episode 78: OCD (Part 4): I-CBT and Neurodivergent Approaches to OCD [featuring Brittany Goff]
    Nov 1, 2024 – 55:47
  • Episode 77: OCD (Part 3): Differentiating OCD, Autism, and Tourettes Behaviors and Enhancing Healthcare [featuring Dr. Stacy Greeter]
    Oct 25, 2024 – 56:34
  • Episode 76: OCD (Part 2): Exposure Therapy—You Don’t Have to Lick Toilets [featuring Aiden Reis]
    Oct 18, 2024 – 01:01:11
  • Episode 75: The Neurodivergent Experience of Hurricane Helene
    Oct 11, 2024 – 47:50
  • Episode 74: OCD (Part 1): An Introduction to OCD
    Oct 4, 2024 – 01:00:09
  • Episode 73: Chronic Health (Part 4): All Brains Belong [featuring Dr. Mel Houser]
    Sep 27, 2024 – 56:10
  • Episode 72: Chronic Health (Part 3): Megan’s Biopsychosocial Assessment
    Sep 20, 2024 – 44:04
  • Episode 71: Chronic Health (Part 2): Patrick’s Biopsychosocial Assessment
    Sep 13, 2024 – 47:22
  • Episode 70: Chronic Health (Part 1): Biopsychosocial Approach to Chronic Health Issues
    Sep 6, 2024 – 31:38
  • Episode 69: Neurodivergent Entrepreneurs (#5): Unmasking The Person and Professional [featuring Maureen Werrbach]
    Aug 30, 2024 – 01:00:07
  • Episode 68: Neurodivergent Entrepreneurs (#4): Rewiring Beliefs to Face Your Inner Critic [featuring Yunetta Smith]
    Aug 23, 2024 – 53:59
  • Episode 67: Neurodivergent Entrepreneurs (#3): Balancing ADHD and Entrepreneurship [featuring Gabrielle Juliano-Villani]
    Aug 16, 2024 – 38:54
  • Episode 66: Neurodivergent Entrepreneurs (Part 2): The Psychology of Entrepreneurship [featuring Corey Wilks]
    Aug 9, 2024 – 01:03:01
  • Episode 65: Neurodivergent Entrepreneurs (Part 1): An Introduction
    Aug 2, 2024 – 01:01:24
  • Episode 64: Ask The Audience (#2): Language for Autism, and Neurodivergent Therapists
    Jul 26, 2024 – 25:36
  • Episode 63: Ask The Audience (#1): Adult Autism, Identity Shifts, and Podcast Insights
    Jul 19, 2024 – 37:52
  • Episode 62: In-Between Phase of an Autism Diagnosis: From Asking to Assessment [featuring Jak Levine-Pritzker]
    Jul 12, 2024 – 48:55
  • Episode 61: ADHD & Romanticism: Reconciling Fantasies with Reality
    Jul 5, 2024 – 44:48
  • Episode 60: Understanding ADHD Tax: Impact, Personal Stories, and Management Strategies
    Jun 28, 2024 – 39:07
  • Episode 59: ADHD Interest-Based Nervous Systems
    Jun 21, 2024 – 43:32
  • Episode 58: “What is ADHD?” (Part 4): Unpacking ADHD Impulsive Traits
    Jun 14, 2024 – 24:43
  • Episode 57: “What is ADHD?” (Part 3): Unpacking ADHD-Hyperactive Traits
    Jun 7, 2024 – 48:53
  • Episode 56: “What is ADHD?” (Part 2): Unpacking ADHD-Inattentive Traits
    May 31, 2024 – 55:59
  • Episode 55: “What is ADHD?” (Part 1): Personal Stories and Professional Insights
    May 24, 2024 – 18:10
  • Episode 54: Rethinking Parenting: Supporting Gender Diverse and Neurodivergent Youth [featuring Lisa Dube]
    May 17, 2024 – 56:40
  • Episode 53: The Intersection of Autism and Eating Disorders [featuring Livia Sara]
    May 10, 2024 – 01:01:42
  • Episode 52: Understanding PMDD: The Link Between Hormonal Imbalances and Neurodivergence [featuring Jes Hagen]
    May 3, 2024 – 01:00:02
  • Episode 51: “What is Autism?” (Part 4): Special Interests and Complex Sensory Experiences
    Apr 26, 2024 – 01:10:30
  • Episode 50: “What is Autism?” (Part 3): The Complex Interplay of Routine, Control, and Flexibility
    Apr 19, 2024 – 57:14
  • Episode 49: "What is Autism?" (Part 2): Navigating the Social Labyrinth
    Apr 12, 2024 – 46:40
  • Episode 48: “What is Autism?” (Part 1): Understanding Autistic Communication
    Apr 5, 2024 – 01:04:18
  • Episode 47: Autistic Burnout (Part 2): A Deep Dive Into The Diversity of Burnout
    Mar 29, 2024 – 58:48
  • Episode 46: Navigating Neurodiversity in the Workplace: Crafting Safe Spaces [featuring Lyric Rivera]
    Mar 22, 2024 – 01:01:12
  • Episode 45: The Creative Sides of Autism + Advocacy Through Art [featuring Bret Malley]
    Mar 15, 2024 – 01:19:05
  • Episode 44: Sensory Shutdowns and Meltdowns: Navigating Neurodivergent Experiences
    Mar 8, 2024 – 55:46
  • Episode 43: The Relief and Grief of Later-in-Life Diagnosis [featuring Jamie Roberts]
    Mar 1, 2024 – 46:27
  • Episode 42: Let The People Feel What They Need To Feel [featuring Tiffany Hammond]
    Feb 23, 2024 – 57:41
  • Episode 41: Unfortunate Coping: Neurodivergence, Addiction, and Recovery
    Feb 16, 2024 – 01:02:14
  • Episode 40: Bridging the Gap: Empowering Neurodivergent Families [featuring Dayna Abraham]
    Feb 9, 2024 – 51:56
  • Episode 39: Reflection and Intention: Mapping Energy, Setting Boundaries, and Finding Balance
    Feb 2, 2024 – 33:56
  • [FLASHBACK] Episode 25: Exploring Different Neurotypes: Ask a Neurotypical [featuring Jennifer Agee]
    Jan 26, 2024 – 01:09:00
  • [FLASHBACK] Episode 24: Exploring Different Neurotypes: Ask an ADHDer [featuring Dr. Donna Henderson]
    Jan 19, 2024 – 56:40
  • [FLASHBACK] Episode 15: Exploring the Intersection: Neurodivergent Experiences and Chronic Health Conditions featuring Dr. Mel Houser
    Jan 12, 2024 – 47:48
  • [FLASHBACK] Episode 7: Finding a Neurodivergent Affirmative Therapist
    Jan 5, 2024 – 55:22
  • [FLASHBACK] Episode 4: Diagnosis Stories (Part 1) — The Impact of Understanding
    Dec 29, 2023 – 48:57
  • [FLASHBACK] Episode 2: Autistic Burnout
    Dec 22, 2023 – 44:15
  • Episode 32: Navigating Neurodivergent Attachment: Unraveling Complex Relationships
    Dec 15, 2023 – 52:50
Recent Reviews
  • allieeeen
    love this podcast!
    I cannot even explain how helpful this podcast was in my autism/adhd journey. It is so comforting and empowering to hear so many topics discussed that I resonate with so deeply. Thank you both for making this podcast and everything you bring to it!!
  • sammysammy8675309
    Love the hosts
    The hosts make this podcast what it is! Patrick and Dr. Neff have such refreshing and unique perspectives.
  • Dikembe Motombo
    Such an amazing resource
    I hope to come back to this someday when I have the time to make this clever and heartfelt. But for now I wanted to express gratitude for this podcast. I can’t even describe how validating and helpful it has been for me. So thank you Megan and Patrick.
  • XiloDelSol
    A MUST LISTEN
    This podcast completely changed my understanding of myself and my loved ones in a transformational way. Patrick and Megan have a wealth of lived experience and knowledge of neurodiversity that they present in an accessible and approachable way. I recommend it to everyone interested in getting to know themselves or the people they interact with better. We all have a neurodivergent person in our life.
  • Justflintisfine
    A lifesaving resource for this AuDHDer
    This was one of the first podcasts I started listening to as I began to understand my diagnosis and what my life would look like from there. The episode on meltdowns and shutdowns changed everything, and I’ve been able to let go of an astounding amount of shame and internalized ableism. I recommend it to anyone who will listen to me.
  • qtpiechris
    Informative and Relatable
    I listen regularly and recommend to my clients. Thank you to you both for sharing your wisdom and creating this virtual community.
  • KJSum
    Honest, real-world conversations from an autistic lens
    I love the podcast whether it’s conversations between Patrick Casale and Dr. Neff or with an additional guest! Honest, relevant, grounded, evidence-based, real-world conversations about life and the autistic experience. I always come away with much to ponder and share within my neurodiverse family.
  • LPWMSW09
    Divergent Conversations are crucial conversations that the world needs more of
    I really enjoy the podcast and truly appreciate the vulnerability & authenticity of Patrick and Megan! It’s helped me better understand myself as someone diagnosed with ADHD as an adult. It’s also been a great resource for learning how to better support my neurodivergent clients as a therapist. I also share this podcasts with clients. I recently shared with someone who shared that it’s helped them to feel better about themselves than they’ve felt in years.
  • PNW Towanda
    Practical and Refreshing
    I love how the hosts neither sugarcoat nor go doom-and-gloom. I appreciate that while they have a conversational style, the content stays solidly focused on neurodivergence. Highly recommend.
  • Alexandria_A
    One of my favorite podcasts!
    I highly recommend this podcast for anyone wanting to learn more about being Autistic or an ADHDer. I really appreciate their honesty about the difficulties of living as an AuDHDer and the educational content is incredibly helpful context. This podcast has definitely helped me navigate being neurodivergent and I’m so grateful it exists! :)
  • Lil_9898
    Endearing and Informative
    I truly dearly adore this podcast. It has been a big part of helping me inform and grow into a peace I didn’t know was out there. I still have a lot of grief around being an audhder. A lot of anger and hurt. I also have so much joy. And I’ve been learning how to tap into that joy more and more. Learning how to work with my brain instead of against it. Learning how all of pieces of the 3D puzzle cubes that are our nervous systems interact. Megan Anna and Patrick also put voice to so so so many experiences that autists and adhder’s alike feel so isolated in. They provide a solace that feels like talking with another audhder when things just -click- and you feel free to discuss the hard things and the good things and acknowledge that, truthfully, none of them make you a bad person. It feels like a warm friendship even when friends are so hard to stay connected to among our neurotypes, with both Megan Anna and Patrick encouraging that connection to their audience. Thank you both so much for creating this space and inviting us in 🩵
  • biankitachikitita
    Great resource for clients (and parents!)
    As a clinical social worker I have been able to learn and share some resonance with Dr Neff and Patrick’s experiences. They are so honest and real and it’s such a breath of fresh air. I’ve recommended this podcast as a resource for several clients who are newly exploring their neurodivergence as well. Lastly, and most importantly for me personally, it has supported me in my mothering and parenting journey as I continue to support and guide my neurodivergent Children. I have found myself laughing out loud and crying with this podcast. Just can’t recommend enough.
  • wcalebb
    Very thoughtful and deep show
    THANK YOU for this podcast! As a late-diagnosed Autistic, it’s been a real light in my life. ❤️
  • SpecialAgentButt
    Fantastic podcast for neurodivergent nerds!
    This podcast was recommended by my therapist about a year ago now, which I later realized was because she believed I was high masking AuDHD and wanted me to identify with the content. I've enjoyed the podcast so much since then and get a lot of value out of it, both the episodes with guests and the episodes where Dr Neff and Patrick discuss specific topics in detail as neurodivergent mental health professionals. Both hosts are relatable in different ways for me, and I really appreciate how vulnerable they choose to be on many of the episodes with difficult subject matter. I also enjoy the variety in guests, as being exposed to diverse perspectives when it comes to how individuals from different backgrounds and neurotypes navigate the world in different ways has been very eye-opening. Over all, this podcast has been a fantastic resource that my partner and I listen to and discuss every week, and I'm grateful to Dr Neff and Patrick for continuing to produce it.
  • KaraLauren
    Love this podcast
    I absolutely love the podcast and the dynamic between the hosts. As a late diagnosed audhd adult it’s so comforting to relate to people for the first time in my life. Thank you 🖤
  • AMichelle808
    So much knowledge here!
    I’ve learned so much and felt such a sense of solidarity and understanding while listening to this podcast. I find the information shared to be more valuable than pretty much any other resource out there. Love these hosts, too! 10/10!
  • Bruns82
    Life changing
    Patrick and Dr. Neff have contributed to a broader understanding of Neurodiversity’s complexities, challenges, benefits, and as a whole in a way that is informative, insightful, and validating. I eagerly await episodes and find myself feigning for more content in between. Thank you Patrick and Dr. Neff, sincerely, for providing us this incredible resource. You have a listener for life!
  • anna thoma
    Beyond Helpful
    One of the best mental health podcasts I’ve ever listened to! I really appreciate Patrick and Megan Anna’s professional expertise and willingness to be honest and vulnerable sharing their personal lived experiences.
  • PissedPissyCat
    Lovely
    It’s so comforting to be able to listen in on these divergent conversations from fellow ND folks who are grounded and thoughtful about the way they live life. I’m constantly amazed by how the conversations evolve and unfold in ways that describe and framework our particular ND experiences.
  • Lauren NYC
    One of the best podcasts for neurodivergent content
    As an Autistic clinical psychologist working and living within the neurodiversity paradigm, this is one of the best podcasts for learning and affirming! I follow on Instagram also and love both of their work! Highly recommend for individuals wanting to learn about themselves and the community, as we as for professionals.
  • Osjsnsnsuwj
    Deep bow of gratitude
    Truly an excellent and needed resource! Deep bow of gratitude to Patrick and Dr. Neff. 🙏🙏🙏
  • Jrees09
    Major source of support
    This podcast has been such a source of support for me in my late diagnosis/self actualization journey. Highly recommend.
  • Rachel Qloqdub
    This podcast saved my life
    After I got my autism late diagnosis October 2023, my therapist recommended this podcast to me. I’ve been listening to every single episode… I’ve listened to some episodes multiple times. I’m not really sure what I would be doing right now or where I would be without this podcast. This podcast gave me reassurance. It made me feel validated, and most importantly it gave me language, and it gave me a perspective I needed to navigate unmasking as a 34 year old. Autistic ADHD and I still have a lot to learn about myself and others and it’s been an incredible experience to have Megan and Patrick in my life. Thank you both for all the time you put into this podcast. AuDHDer Queer They/She 34 years PDX
  • BlazeJester
    Good content, challenging audio for this sensitive ND
    I like the content of the podcast. Dr Neff has a very similar experience of the world and I appreciate hearing her perspectives on life. Hearing her talk reveals a lot to me about myself and I like the PsyD perspective. Technically, the editing is unpredictable and sometimes unlistenable. There have been episodes where I couldn’t turn the volume up enough to hear someone speaking, and that’s with turning my phone volume to max and turning up a sound system to near max. I also have auditory sensitivity challenges with gravelly voices so that can make it challenging for me to get through an episode. I often avoid listening to the new episodes and have chosen to unsubscribe because of it (so they stop popping into my up next feed). It’s challenging to skip ads when recorded by the podcast hosts in their “normal” voice, and I often skip through content of Patrick talking on the episode topic because of the ads.
  • neighborhoodotaku
    Autism Insights Beyond Traditional Circles
    As an entrepreneur and speaker on the spectrum, I’ve found great comfort and wisdom in this podcast! Megan and Patrick are a beautiful blend of compassion and candidness that paint the canvas of autism in a light you might not expect. There’s a lot of talk here not being had in professional spectrum circles that’s definitely worth your ears.
  • rbeccamari
    Validation
    I’m so grateful I’ve found your podcast. So many of the personal stories resonate for me and make me feel seen and understood in a way I don’t think I ever have. You share generously and clearly and I am grateful. I recommend this podcast for anyone wanting to more deeply understand ADHd and Autism.
  • Billiam_27
    Brilliant!
    As an autistic adult myself, this podcast is truly worth committing to. Having two hosts, both on the spectrum, isn’t as common as it should be. Megan and Patrick sharing their life stories has been eye opening, since many of my experiences are similar! A must listen podcast for those on the spectrum, as well as neurotypical’s who want to learn what autism is, especially in adults. I would love to have both as guests on my podcast one day too!
  • trykind
    Great information
    I’ve been looking for a podcast to share with my clients who feel they may be autistic. I find this to be very informative and helpful. I like that it comes from a perspective of someone who is experiencing autism. Thanks!
  • Stupid ninja 77
    You guys sound like a blast to hang around
    I also give the autistic body ZERO out of 5 stars. However, after listening to every episode you two have put out, I would certainly rate hanging out with you two for an hour every Friday: 5 stars ⭐️ ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ Thank you both for doing what you do!🙏🤓
  • BayArea!!!
    Enjoying
    Thanks!
  • babbaloooo
    Vocal Fry Pod
    I’d love to get past these vocal fry voices. Because they might be adding good content to the ND conversation. But I can’t. The lazy speech comes across as unprofessional. They are grating and sound bored or unambitious.
  • no_big
    Five-star review
    “Zero out of ten, do not recommend”: devastating and sometimes hilarious insights into autistic embodiment. Thanks for these real conversations.
  • JACNanny
    Refreshing and Validating
    Candid and enlightening conversations around living with a neurodivergent brain. I’ve gleaned SO many tips from this podcast and it’s help me navigate and distinguish my ADHD symptoms from other things I have going on. Such a good listen!
  • Bri_Naa
    Refreshing and insightful
    It’s so refreshing to hear directly from ND people living ND lives and working with and around other ND people. Knowledgeable in both a clinical and personal way, this is a favorite podcast of mine! Keep it up!
  • NeverNude McGillicuddy
    Self-involved and unrealistic
    Dr. Neff appears phony, arrogant, and lacking experience with navigating the world outside of academia or private practice
  • JennyAnyDot7
    Brainy, delightfully awkward, & genuine
    This podcast has been so helpful and validating to me as I navigate and seek to understand my children’s and my own neurodivergences. It is brainy and delightfully awkward in ways that hit all the right dopamine receptors for me.
  • Jamie ND
    Refreshing
    It is so refreshing to hear an honest and validating conversation about neurodivergence. Patrick and Megan are fantastic resources!
  • AshleyHosey
    So Real
    While I don’t think I fall into the neurodivergent category, I find myself being able to relate to something in the podcast. I’m learning what it’s like on the opposite side for those who ARE neurodivergent and how “simple” things can be really difficult. Patrick is very relatable to me. I’m in recovery from my own addiction and it’s so refreshing to have another professional name this and share their own journey to self discovery and empowerment. Worth a listen for sure!
  • Lone Sloan
    Thank you, Patrick
    …For your honest admission of struggles with addiction. If a therapist struggled, who am I to loathe myself for having troubles resisting marijuana. Neurodivergence can increase social isolation, and social isolation can lead to an urge to bury deep feelings of loneliness. I appreciate you.
  • BerylH
    Wonderful content!
    Excellent discussions! I’m only giving 4 stars because the podcast would benefit from occasional sound editing. The content is amazing, listening to the audio can be grating.
  • Brooke LW
    So Affirming and Normalizing
    As a neurodivergent person myself, and therapist, this podcast “feels like home” to everything I experience. I always share episodes as appropriate to ND clients too that is a wonderful addition to our sessions for further processing. So grateful for this podcast!
  • Anomaline
    Giving words to those who need it most!
    Love this podcast! I have used it in my personal life, as well as with my clients. It gives a voice to those who have a hard time explaining their needs and describing their existence. That is truly priceless and absolutely necessary! This podcast must exist and keep going!
  • KimmieSlagle
    Patrick Thumbs Up
    The perfect balance of relatability AND insight! I’m grateful people like Patrick have a voice in this space. Not only does he provide helpful insights, he does it with his authentic self intact as opposed to feeling like he has to put on a front or show of some sort. He leads with his humanness first, which I find way more normalizing, not to mention more enjoyable than being lectured at. Thank you both so much for all you do to create and share this awesome content with us! PS: I don’t trust people who don’t cuss every once in a while, so keep the F-bombs coming!
  • Liz Huebsch
    Highly Recommend
    Love this podcast. Very informative.
  • Jennifer Agee
    Definitely Worth Listening!!
    Dr. Neff and Patrick do an amazing job of letting us into the felt experience of someone who is neurodivergent. Listening to this podcast has helped me understand my loved ones better and show up in more supportive ways in their lives. Thank you. Truly.
  • MFTlady
    I’ve never felt so seen …
    This podcast not only has helped me to put words to my own neurodivergent experiences, its helped me as a fellow therapist to make sense out of so many of the experiences that my clients share with me. Its helped me have deeper conversations with friends and family members. And it’s been a welcomed companion on many of my hikes thru the evergreens of my new home in the PNW. Thank you Megan & Patrick for showing up for us and with us like you do. Please keep it up. 🙏🏻☺️
  • Brendan Bellavia
    Fantastic Podcast!!
    As someone that is neurodivergent myself, I have found Patrick and Megan’s podcast to be extremely insightful and informative. I have learned so much more about the Autistic and ADHD experiences while also getting more clarity into my own struggles. I have been able to put a name to so many things I go through which has made me feel less alone. It has been truly liberating to listen to this and highly recommend for anyone who is neurodivergent or knows someone who is.
  • Machomachine
    Must listen for autistic therapists
    If you’re a mental health professional/therapist or other healthcare professional, this podcast is one that must be on your list!
  • Lady Schnitzelpuus
    Publications
    Do either of you have publications out in any scholarly journals? And any institutional affiliations, alma maters etc. Please pardon me if you’ve mentioned these elsewhere and I just couldn’t find the information.
  • Maude Blake
    Highly Recommend
    This is an amazing podcast and such a great resource. Thank you so much for taking the time to make it. I really enjoy listening to both of you.
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